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A highly controversial show with “modern day prophet” Marshall Vian Summers from his base in Colorado – He believes he has received vital new messages for Mankind from God – His views have been strongly attacked by followers of some religions – but he says it’s crucial he gets the word out to the world.
Howard: Across the UK, across the continental North America and around the world on the Internet by web-cast and by podcast, my name is Howard Hughes and this is The Unexplained. Well, welcome to 2013; we’ve had a really grey and miserable and damp start to the New Year here in London.
… Now I said this was gonna be controversial stuff; you let me know what you think about it and him. His name is Marshall Vian Summers. He’s in the United States and he’s waiting to talk to us right now by digital connection so Marshall, thank you for coming on the show.
Marshall: Thank you for having me today.
Howard: Now Marshall, you are described in the biography that I have for you, as a modern day prophet. A lot of people describe themselves that way. Why are you different?
Marshall: Well, I’m bringing into the world, I think, a Revelation of which life in the universe, the teachings of life in the universe is a part that encompasses really a whole new reality. It’s not a commentary upon the state of affairs today or religion as we’ve known it. It really represents a new paradigm of understanding and within that there is prophecy as part of the Revelation. But The Revelation extends even beyond our notions of prophecy and speaks of the new world we’ll be facing and our emergence into a Greater Community of life in the universe.
Howard: This all sounds very good and I spent a little time watching one of your videos online before we did this and you gave a very, very clear, calm and very comprehensive summation of the crises, multiple crises, that face this planet right now and in the future. But I’m just wondering how you are the conduit for information that could help us out of this? How’s that come about?
Marshall: Well, I was prepared before coming into this world to receive this Revelation, which has taken me 30 years to receive. It is something that, you know, I did not elect to do myself. I was chosen for this. I was prepared over a very long period of time and the purpose and ultimate goal of this was even kept hidden from me for much of that time, as I was able to become stronger and more mature and probably more reliable, in being able to receive something that far exceeded my own understanding or things that I’d heard or read about in the world around me.
Howard: OK, it’s a story that, in other forms, I’ve heard before. However, I’d be very interested to hear your version and take on this. What path were you on before you were selected?
Marshall: Well, I wasn’t really on a path. I was a special educator for the visually handicapped. I was putting my life together as a young person. But during my brief tenure as an educator there, I began to hear an inner Voice that directed me to proceed in a direction I had not chosen or did not know of, and that took a long time.
And over that time period of ten years, I began to teach inner guidance training and to prepare people to respond to an inner voice, people who were having an inner voice experience. And that prepared me for my own engagement with the Source of the New Message, which revealed itself to me in 1982.
Howard: You sound very calm about this. If I’d been approached by some Higher Force, if I started to have an inner voice start talking to me, my first assumption might be that there was something going wrong with me.
Marshall: Yes, well certainly I’m calm in retrospect, but at the time, it was—particularly the encounter with the Source of this Voice, had such a huge impact upon me that my life just changed or I changed it very dramatically following this encounter.
And this was a very turbulent period, so I think this is something, you know, that people don’t realize; when you have an engagement of this kind and this magnitude, it really blows your life up for a period of time and then you have to choose again and again and again that you’re going to listen and follow and respond, even though you really don’t understand what’s happening and of course, often, there’s no one around you who can tell you what’s happening. So…
Howard: Well, I’m sure who would you go to? Who could you seek guidance from? I can’t imagine.
Marshall: Well, there are people who can confirm an experience like this and it’s very important to hear the right Voice. I mean, there are many voices that can speak to us beyond the visual range and what is the right voice? And that’s a matter for your own internal recognition and confirmation, what we call the power of Knowledge, to recognize what is true, even though you have no evidence.
Howard: Alright, so you’re saying that it felt right?
Marshall: Excuse me?
Howard: I’m saying you’re saying when you got the message, when you made the contact, it felt right and that’s what verified it for you.
Marshall: Over time it felt right; at the outset, it was bewildering, confusing, frightening. It was tremendous and when you read back about the prophets of old, I mean they talk about this contact as being terrifying, as if they’re going to be destroyed.
Howard: Exactly! You can read the stories of many prophets and you will see this kind of thing in all of them and of course, it’s an absolutely, I don’t want to use the word ‘awesome’ because it’s used on the media trailers all the time, but it is a truly awesome and awe inspiring experience for those people who say they’ve gone through it.
Marshall: Yes, I think that’s really correct.
Howard: All right, I’d like, if I can, just to, before we take it on a little further, just to explore this process that you went through, because it does sound like absolutely, of course it is, but absolutely momentous for you, but I’m just trying to get to the root of what you personally were going through and how you came to the realization within yourself that yes, I am getting information and Knowledge from somewhere else, because there must have, this is a process we’re talking about here. I’m sure you didn’t make that decision and that judgment overnight.
Marshall: Certainly not. In fact, the guidance that I received was under very normal circumstances, working with visually handicapped children, in a situation where I had to really know what to do in the moment and the Voice would tell me to do certain things with certain people that’d end up being remarkably effective and before I even had a sense of what this was, the times that I chose to follow that Voice or that directive, it proved to be remarkably effective.
Howard: Now, I’m convinced in my experience of life, for what it’s worth, that there are many powers and abilities that we, as human beings have, that we haven’t fully connected to yet. We can do things and sense things that rationally we’re not supposed to be able to do.
How did you become sure that these instincts that you were getting and these bits of advice you were getting about people you were teaching were coming from something external to you and not just an intuition within yourself, if you see what I mean?
Marshall: I knew that, because there were things I had not thought of in any way and they belied, in some cases contradicted, things that I thought that I was going to do in certain situations. They were very “left field” in that regard and …
Howard: Can you think of an example?
Marshall: Well, being instructed to work with an individual in a certain way that was completely outside the realm of my normal activities with that person, instructing them to tell me things, reveal things to me about their life, query them a little bit about their experience, rather than just work with them, in terms of developing living skills.
This is the kind of thing that revealed insight that I would not have had otherwise and I that I was not planning to do and indeed, feeling held back in my general life my outer life, from things that attracted me, things I thought would be intriguing. I was at a time in my life where most people were making career choices. I was held back from doing that. Things that seemed really irrational or unusual within those circumstances and I knew I was dealing with a mystery.
Howard: And did you get to the point where you said, as most of us, I guess, in the dead of night by ourselves would say: “OK, who are you? Where are you? And what the heck do you want with me?”
Marshall: Well, I certainly asked that last question! They wouldn’t say who they were and they’d only asked me to receive and eventually they would ask me to record and this mystery of their identity even remains, to a certain extent, to the present time, because who they are is so phenomenal and who they reveal themselves to be within The New Message teaching is so phenomenal that it’s really hard to deal with and I’ll give you an example.
This Voice describes itself as the entire Angelic Presence speaking as one Voice. It’s not an individual with a name. It’s not a personality, even though the voice has a very unique way of speaking, a very unique accent; some people think it’s European, some people think it’s Oriental; some people think it’s East Indian.
It’s quite phenomenal when you listen to The Voice of Revelation, which we’ve made available in great quantity on the newmessage.org Internet site. And when you listen to that Voice, it’s really something.
Howard: And what is the difference between this and the many people that I’ve spoken to over the years who say that they challenge or rather, channel, the voices and thoughts and feelings of ascended masters, ascended beings?
Marshall: This is something beyond our notion of ascended beings. We always—people always try to associate the present with the past and we try to associate relationship with individuals, but The Voice, the Source of the New Message, is not an individual. It’s a collective. It’s a group.
It’s the Angelic Assembly speaking as one Voice and this is how that Voice describes itself. And that is why, at an earlier time, my trying to understand who was talking to me, “what’s your name; where are you coming from?” proved to be unsuccessful. I just had to know and prove that I could follow what I was being given to do, before I had any real information about who was directing me and for what purpose.
Howard: So this Presence started you off on the nursery slopes and the nursery slopes were help for your pupils at the time and then I guess you would have turned the corner and moved towards Messages of more import.
Marshall: Well certainly Messages about directing my life—things to not become engaged with. I had to hold myself back. In other words, much of the early guidance that people will receive in their life is restraint, because there are so many things we must restrain ourselves from and often we don’t do that. And that lack of restraint and self-confidence and self-trust is a big part of what gets us into trouble in life and this is across the board.
Howard: And when you talk about restraint, are you talking about avoiding booze and drugs and you know, all the rest of it, all those little alleyways that we can wander down if we’re not too careful?
Marshall: Well certainly those, but even more importantly, avoiding pleasant people, pleasant situations, career decisions, the things that would seem to be normal and very approved of in my circumstances, I could not choose those things and I was held back from choosing those things.
Howard: When you say you were held back and that’s the second time you’ve said it and I didn’t challenge you on it first of all, but let’s do that now, because it’s interesting. How were you held back? Did this voice say, “Don’t do that” or did simply you try to do things, as normal human beings would do, advancement in your career, whatever it might be and it just didn’t happen for you?
Marshall: The restraint for me came mostly from within me, what we call the level of Knowledge, the deeper mind, feeling—holding back; it’s even a physical experience, but it’s a sense of do not go there; do not do this. And it’s more a sense than a message.
There were certain situations where that was confirmed by the Source; do not do these things or do not choose to do that, but mostly the experience came from within me to hold myself back, inner restraint and sometimes without any reasonable justification.
Howard: I can remember being on a highway, this is a trivial example in the UK, about 3 or 4 years ago. And every so often I get intuitions about things. It wasn’t actually a spoken voice, but I just felt if I took a left turn and went the route that I was going to go, I would get into a tremendous traffic jam; I’d get into a great big hold up.
But this voice, or whatever it was, said to me—but it wasn’t speaking to me—if you want to prove that this information is right, go ahead and take that decision that you’d partially taken; go down that route and you’ll see that we were right about the traffic and so I did and of course, I did get stuck without any warning at all in a great big traffic hold up and I was left laughing by it. I’m just wondering if that sort of intuition is related in any way to what you’re talking about.
Marshall: Well, absolutely it is. In fact, this is what the whole New Message teaching is focused on, bringing people into the engagement with the deeper mind, because we have two minds. We have our worldly mind that’s been conditioned by culture, family and often, religion. And then we have a deeper mind that’s the eternal part of us that existed before we came into the world and will exist afterwards.
And this represents the part of us that is wise; it is powerful and it is uncorrupted with the world. It’s not afraid of the world and so your experience then, is an experience we would call Knowledge, the inner guidance in Knowledge, which is an experience that very many people have had and are continuing to have and they’re very important to understand.
But to be able to prepare to engage with this deeper mind, which is what is presented in the work Steps to Knowledge, which is one of the books of practices in The New Message, actually enables you to develop a working relationship with this deeper mind. And this deeper mind is not there to fulfill your wishes and your dreams and to make you rich and to give you, you know, the things you might think you want or need. It really is there to guide you in the direction that your life is meant to go.
Howard: And so, as you were going through this process in the 80’s and presumably as the 80’s became the 90’s, what direction did you start feeling that you were being taken in? Did you think, hey, someone’s picked me as a prophet here, you know, I’m like, remember that movie, “Heaven Almighty”? Here I am, I’m being—the hand of God is on my shoulder.
Marshall: That is exactly what it was becoming for me. It was going to be very important. I needed to bring my life in order; I needed to become very strong internally. I needed to look at people compassionately and not be caught up in judgment and condemnation. And I needed to learn to distinguish the true Voice within me from other voices.
We have other voices in our minds: the voice of our parents, the voice of our siblings, the voice of our spouse, the voice of children. What is the Voice that is the Voice that must be followed and what, more importantly even than that, is what is the feeling within us that tells us when something’s true? Because we’ve been given an innate sense of what is true, and this is part of this deeper mind experience, that exists beyond the realm of the intellect.
And as I was being prepared to become a Messenger, I had to have a very smart understanding of the world on one hand, but I had to also allow this Mystery experience to grow within me, and so that I could become educated and learned there. It’s not something where you just get a Message and just do things. Not if you’re meant to do something bigger in life; you’re actually in the state of inner preparation.
Howard: Marshall, I have to ask you this because I get a lot of emails from people and they will castigate me if I don’t ask you this. Some of those skeptical people will say, “We’ve heard this kind of stuff from cult leaders in the past.” Can you reassure those people and the rest of the listening audience that you do not consider yourself to be the founder of or a leader of a cult?
Marshall: Well certainly not and I’ll tell you very clearly that the nature of the teaching of The New Message is to empower people to be inner directed in life, to become strong in the world and to become contributors in the world. And you know, nothing grows in the shade of great trees, so—and I certainly do not want mindless followers with me; that would be a hindrance to me. My task is to bring into the world something the world does not possess that it needs to prepare for the future world we’re going to be facing all together—and for our encounter with the universe full of intelligent life.
Howard: You said you don’t want mindless followers. Do you want followers per se? Do you want mindful followers? Do you want followers?
Marshall: Certainly I want people who can resonate with The New Message and study it and begin to share it with other people and to utilize it fully within their own lives; I mean that’s the natural emanation of the gift that I have been asked to give; it’s now resonating through other people.
Howard: But if a Voice is not talking to them, like, you know, most of the time it isn’t talking to me, how can they do what you’ve done? How could they use their own communicative abilities as you have done? How can they do that, if they’re not being talked to in the way that you say that you were?
Marshall: The purpose of this is to bring everyone into engagement with the deeper mind within them, with their own inner guidance and personal responsibility. I’m giving people the means to engage with that deeper intelligence and that is in all things I speak about and the whole range of the things the New Message talks about.
That’s always a central focus of mine, because people have to be inner-directed, not outer-directed, in this regard, particularly as we enter a more chaotic world, a world of greater upheaval and uncertainty. And the New Message is really here to restore people, their dignity, their power, their inner direction and ultimately what they’re here to do to serve a world in need.
Howard: Alright, that’s the manifesto. How is that going to happen?
Marshall: That happens because people are given the means, not only the opportunity to understand the importance of this and the need for this, but actually the steps to take in engaging with this deeper intelligence in bringing this inner voice experience into their own lives. And for many people, it’s already happening.
They just don’t understand it; perhaps they’ve denied it and they haven’t engaged with it in a proactive manner, because you can become quite passive around things like this. But you really have to be proactive. You have to bring your questions, your needs, your confusion, or what you think is the truth to the Power and the Presence that lives within you.
Howard: Now on that video that I watched, that we talked about at the top of this, which as I said was very compelling; it was a good summation of all the problems that this planet has at the moment. How, practically, does what you’ve just been telling me about, how is all of that brought to bear against those problems?
How do we solve the problems of diminishing resources, of international conflict, greed, growing population, weather change, climate change, all the rest of it? How does what you’ve been talking about there, practically for the vast bulk of people in the world, how does that engage with those problems? How do we fix those problems by the methods that you’ve just been talking about?
Marshall: Well everything that is happening today and everything that will happen is the product of decisions that people make. Not just leaders of nations, but every person.
Howard: How so?
Marshall: The quality of your life, as it stands today, is largely the product of decisions you have made, whether for better or worse, and your life tomorrow will be based upon the decisions you make, for better or worse. So the question is what informs those decisions? Are those decisions being informed by taking cues from other people or following the cultural norms, or doing what your parents or your spouse expects you to do or what your social conditioning has programmed you to do, or are you going to be able to follow an inner Voice that is not guided by fear and preference that can lead you into this uncertain future with a greater power and certainty?
So if you look at life at that level, at the level of what people decide to do and what informs those decisions, now we’re talking about something fundamental and empowering to each person, because we always look to leaders to make decisions for us and we complain endlessly because we don’t like the results. But people really do have to listen internally to know what’s true ultimately, because even the world’s foremost authorities can be and have been wrong in many things and science is evolved; cultural understanding is evolved; all these things have evolved, eclipsing the previous understanding. So, what I’m saying here is that if you’re going to influence and affect people in a positive way, you have to give them the resources, teach them where these resources exist within them and around them, so they can see clearly and know what to do.
Howard: Alright, look, I’m an ordinary Joe, you know; I’ve got an ordinary kind of a job and; I come to you and I say, “Marshall, I want to connect with my Higher Self. I want to know what’s out there in the universe; I want to know what the real story is.” What do you tell them? What do you tell that person?
Marshall: I would tell them they need to find the inner Voice and I would ask them, “Have you ever experienced this inner Voice before?” And I’ve asked this of many people, very ordinary people, people in other countries, and it’s amazing, as you’ve shared with us your experience of that highway, being on the highway making that decision, this is not an uncommon experience with people, that in a moment of time they’ll have an unusual kind of experience of pre-cognition, of recognition or even of restraint, holding yourself back, that I think is probably part of our normal experience; it’s just not recognized or understood. It’s not followed through.
Howard: And where is that instinct? I don’t think we’ve said clearly yet. Where is that instinct, guidance coming from? Is it coming from extraterrestrials? What’s the Source? You used the phrase “The Source” at the top of this.
Marshall: The mind that God has given you, the power of Knowledge that God has given to every person, because God is not micro-managing the world. God is not affecting the climate. God is not organizing your daily affairs. God has given you Knowledge, the perfect guiding intelligence, to guide you, to protect you and to lead you to a greater life of service and fulfillment in the world.
Howard: When you talk about God are you using that term in the religious sense?
Marshall: Absolutely. I’m talking about the Source of all Life in the Universe and in dimensions even beyond what we’re aware of—a God of The Greater Community, not a local God, not a God of antiquity, not a God of, you know, the Israelites, not a God of the people of the Arabian peninsula only, a God much bigger, much more complete.
And this is part of the theology of The New Message, that’s represented in the Teachings on life in the universe and all of the works of the New Message. And so when I speak of God, I’m speaking about The Source. And God is very intelligent, because God has put Knowledge within each person, to guide them and to bring them back to that Knowledge, to engage them with that Knowledge.
He’s giving them the greatest Power and endowment that you can ever give them. And once people are fed and housed and clothed and given security, this is the greatest gift that they can discover or to express, because this will reorganize their life and priorities; this will give them clarity in areas where everyone is confused. This will help them make decisions they need to make and not make the decisions they would make otherwise.
Howard: That sounds great. I’m still not massively clear on how that’s going to happen, when we’re talking about millions of ordinary people. I can see that one or two spiritually-inclined individuals might buy into all of this, but I’m wondering and I’m sorry if I sound like a terrible skeptic, but I’m just trying to, you know, get the information here.
How are we going to get mass, bulk—ordinary people, people out there on the street, people going to work, people doing what they have to do every day to feed themselves—how do we get them to change their behavior, so they make this world a better place, which is what I think you’re talking about?
Marshall: Well, my task as The Messenger, is to bring the warning, the Blessing and the preparation and to try to make it available to as many people as possible. That is why Steps to Knowledge is free online. That is why much of The New Message is presented. That’s why the Voice of the Revelation is presented for people to hear.
I mean, I can only do my part. I’m not here to govern and determine the fate of humanity, but to bring this greater understanding, along with it the preparation for life in the universe, the preparation for a new world, a world of declining resources and political, social and environmental upheaval. It’s my task to bring this Revelation to the world.
Howard: And you talked about, first of all, a warning of those three things you talked about. But the things you discussed there as problems—the scarcity of resources and climate change and all the rest of it. We knew about that. We knew about that before you started to write books. We knew that we have these difficulties in the world. Is that the warning or is there another warning?
Marshall: Well certainly the warning is the outcome of all these things, which I think is greatly underestimated and misrepresented by government and unfortunately even science is constrained from saying what is really appearing on the horizon. And The New Message also gives us warning about our contact with life beyond our world and that we are approaching this very romantically, very idealistically, looking for, you know, free gifts, free energy, salvation. We really don’t understand what we’re dealing with within this Greater Community of life. And this is why…
Howard: And do you understand what we’re dealing with out there, if there is life out there? I suspect there is, but what are we dealing with then?
Marshall: My understanding is based on The Revelation that has been given about the reality and the spirituality of life in the universe.
Howard: OK. And this Revelation has been given to you?
Howard: And what is out there and why must we fear this? Why must we be mindful of this?
Marshall: Well, we live in a very well-inhabited part of the universe, where there are much older civilizations that are mostly secular in nature, that govern trade and commerce, where war is suppressed, where intervention in a world such as ours, a world that is incredibly rich and valuable, is now taking place, because we have created an infrastructure that others can use.
This world will be influenced without the use of force and that’s what we’re experiencing. This is what is happening all over the world and I’m sure you know of this yourself. And the warning is, is that this is intervention. This is not visitation. And that we as the native peoples of the world are going to have to deal with this and ultimately create our own rules of engagement and unite around this, because this is one of the most powerful things that could unite humanity, because humanity is never going to unite over a philosophy or a religion, or an economic philosophy. It is going to unite because it is endangered. It is endangered from without and it is endangered from within.
Howard: Well, it’s the story of nations, for as long as there’ve been nations. It’s always the threat from without that always unites all the people. So you’re saying that this external threat, external to this planet, is the thing that will bring us all together?
Marshall: That, plus the deteriorating condition of the natural world here, because if we compete for the remaining resources, as we are doing right now and that will escalate in intensity and ferocity as we continue, we’re going to deplete those resources quickly and the world will decline into endless war and conflict.
Howard: Alright, I hate to use the phrase ‘extraterrestrial’, because it almost sounds trivial, but that’s what you’re talking about. We can’t call them people, beings or force or whatever. Where are they? Who are they? And what are they doing?
Marshall: They’re small groups, representing larger groups who are here to take advantage of human conflict, human expectation and human naïveté.
Howard: So they’re feeding off it?
Marshall: They’re working it to their advantage.
Howard: And what do they want?
Marshall: They want control of this world. They can’t live here, so they need us to work for them and that’s why they’re presenting themselves to many people in a non-threatening manner. But their goal is to utilize the world for their purposes, not for our purposes.
Howard: As far as you know, what are their purposes?
Marshall: The world is rich in certain resources that are valued in the universe. The world has strategic value. The world produces things of immense importance in the universe of barren worlds. This is the mundane reality of the universe that most people fail to recognize. They want the universe to be everything that doesn’t exist here on Earth.
They want it to be fantastic, miraculous. They dream of technology doing wondrous things. They dream of civilizations living in peace and harmony;. They think that elevated races are going to move beyond the need for resources, the need for competition, conflict and corruption, but alas, The New Message presents a universe that very much reflects our life here on Earth, except that it’s immensely greater and has many more participants and is far more complex.
Howard: Now you say that these forces outside this world are using us and are intervening and taking advantage of the situation here, because of things that they might want from us. In terms of natural resources though, that doesn’t compute, does it, because we’re depleting the natural resources of this world.
We’re having to look at things like oil from shale and things like that. We’re having to hunt harder and harder to get resources, so why would anybody come from outside wanting any of that? Or are they taking something more fundamental? Are they draining our personal energy?
Marshall: Oh no. They’re not draining our personal energy. They seek the biological resources of the world. They need things that are fundamental to life. They need things that can build life and restore life and heal life. And in a world of such immense biological diversity, this is like a storehouse of wealth. They don’t care about oil. They’re not looking for gold.
Howard: So do they have a planet or planets that they have mined out to extinction almost? That they’ve got rid of their own resources, they’ve used them? They’ve had a good time, now they’re coming here for some more?
Marshall: Well, it appears from The Revelation that the normal tendency of advancing nations is materially to deplete their world’s resources, therefore engaging them in trade, commerce and exploration for what they need. And the higher your level of technology, the more resources you need. And so the search for resources is relentless in the universe.
The competition for resources is relentless in the universe. We’re the native peoples living on a planet that’s only known by a few races and I can explain to you why that is in a minute. But we’re living on a planet that is valued by others and we are the unwise stewards who are engaged in, you know, tribal conflict as our main focus and we’re depleting ourselves and the planet in doing that, so certainly to restore the planet or to safeguard it against complete destruction here is of interest to other worlds.
Howard: But if they’re taking our resources and we take steps to preserve them, they’re still gonna take our resources, aren’t they?
Marshall: Yes. They are.
Howard: How can we stop that?
Marshall: They want us to preserve certain resources, but they also want to diminish our power and sovereignty within this world. Because if you think about the fact that they cannot live here, that they need us to do this work for them, then they’re going to try to manipulate that in such a way that it appears that we’re still doing the work for ourselves. It looks like we’re self-determined people.
But in fact, leaders of commerce, particularly commerce, even religion and governance—certain individuals—will come under tremendous persuasion to seek counsel, guidance and even technology from beyond the world. And once we receive technology from beyond the world, it’s a beginning of a process of dis-empowering the people of our world—the human family.
Howard: Now that’s interesting. You’re saying that political figures, as a lot of us have suspected, are aware of energies beyond this planet, of forces of peoples, of races who might want things and they might be made a very tempting offer, perhaps an offer you can’t refuse, so, you know, look, we’re gonna help you with this. You scratch our back and we’ll scratch yours sort of thing. Are you saying that these sorts of deals and accommodations are already being made?
Marshall: Oh certainly. And certainly the attempt is being made, particularly in figures of commerce, since they have no public accountability. And since they’re purely profit-driven and have no pretense to any higher ethics. So we’re being seduced. You know, you win a race over not by attacking them, but by seducing them.
This is how advanced races function in a universe, a local universe, where war is suppressed and where violence is really not used a great deal, because the world is a valuable resource here. If you deplete it through violence, attempt at conquest, you basically despoil the prize. And not only is the world the prize, but humanity is the prize, because we’re able to live here and there’s a reason why advanced races cannot live in the world. And I’ll talk about that if you’re interested.
Howard: Yeah, totally, please explain.
Marshall: Well, races that have evolved in sterile environments, who live in space, cannot tolerate a biological environment such as this, where there are literally millions of biological agents that could infect them. And even advanced medicine in the universe has not provided a total insulation from biological factors. And so even amongst races in the universe who interact with each other, there’s a tremendous concern about the proliferation of dangerous illnesses, about contamination and this is a world that is extremely contaminated biologically because it’s so diverse and so rich.
Howard: OK, so they can’t come here because they might get infected. Um, this planet is starting to look like not a great proposition, then. I’m struggling to fully understand why they might want us and what we have.
Marshall: They want the biological resources of the world. They can’t live and work here themselves. And so we are the potential workforce for them. You see what I’m saying? If you’re living in a Greater Community of life and you have very specific biological requirements, most of the places you’re going to go to seek for resources are places you can’t survive yourself. So you have to get others to work for you who can survive in those environments.
Howard: Alright, and what are the resources as far as you know, they want? What do they want from us?
Marshall: They want the basic building blocks of life. They want blood. They want plasma. They want chlorophyll. They want all the elements upon which you can build life, sustain life and repair life. This is, unfortunately, you know, the mundane universe, and we haven’t yet talked about the spiritual universe yet.
But the first part of Life in the Universe is about the mundane universe and it’s telling us things we need to un-know and understand and it’s bringing this to us within the realm of our own experience. So it’s not, you know, it’s not beyond our comprehension.
Howard: And how long has this stuff been going on for? Has it been going on before Roswell?
Marshall: The intervention has gone into its more mature phase since the end of World War II.
Howard: And you’re absolutely rock solid sure and convinced of that?
Marshall: That’s what’s been revealed to me.
Howard: And the Source that reveals it to you, is that Source, if it’s able to be, optimistic about our propensity, our ability to be able to win through? Does it give you any head’s up about that?
Marshall: Well certainly, otherwise The Revelation wouldn’t be given. I mean if our fate was cast, there’s no point in trying to encourage people to save the planet and to secure human freedom and sovereignty in this world. So this is a—the blessing with humanity is the power of Knowledge has not gone dead within us, as it has in so many other races in the universe. We have this power within us and that’s what makes us important and that’s what gives us a great promise in a universe where this light has died out in so many places.
Howard: And how, collectively, do we stop this intervention, then? What do we have to do?
Marshall: It begins with awareness and education. We have to know what is going on in our world regarding intervention. We have to understand its intentions. We have to look at it without desire, preference or terror. We have to realize that we do have the power to stop this intervention, because it can only function with human acquiescence and human cooperation.
Howard: And you’re saying that cooperation is being offered? There are those who are offering that cooperation to whatever force that may be out there?
Marshall: Well certainly, we’re being acclimated to their presence. Go in a toy store and look at the extraterrestrial toys and look at the cartoons on television that our children watch and look at the movies that are coming out now that are all about invasions, intervention. We’re being, you know, either—both that or unconsciously I think we understand that we’re facing intervention; we’re no longer alone in the universe or even within our own world.
Howard: And, we can forget the idea of good aliens? That’s not the fact.
Marshall: Those races who could be real allies of humanity know that we do not have the ability to discern friend from foe. And also they know that we have to gain our own freedom on our own strength and merits and all they can do for us is to send us their wisdom about life in the universe. And that’s the greatest service that they can provide to us, because if they try to improve our life here directly, they’ll have to take over. And that’s not what they will do.
Howard: So the Source of your revelations of what you’re telling here is an almost united High Command. It’s the good guys getting together beyond this planet to say, “Wake up, you people down there on Earth. You need to know you’re being interfered with and your life force, your energy, your resources, they’re gonna be raped.”
Marshall: Well, actually, the Source of this is God, because God is preparing humanity for The Greater Community. God is preparing humanity for a world in decline. God is calling upon Knowledge within each of us to respond. God is providing the warning, the Blessing, the preparation. This is a gift from God. I mean there are some allies of humanity out there in the universe, but they’re not those races interfering with human affairs.
Howard: So, you talk about God. I wonder if you’ve had any reaction to the things you’ve been saying from the orthodox churches, the ones that, those who still go to church, the ones they go to? Have you had any thoughts back from them?
Marshall: Oh certainly. In fact, The New Message Forums, we’re attacked all the time. Some people think the world’s going to end anyway and we’re just waiting for the end times to complete themselves. I mean the notions and the beliefs, the fixated ideas, are the things that are blinding us to the condition of our world, to the possibility we have a much greater future than we can foresee at this moment, and that we’re emerging into a larger arena of intelligent life, a non-human universe where freedom is rare but where it can be established.
And there’s three things that have to happen for it to be established, three requirements for freedom in the universe. The first is functioning unity—doesn’t mean we’re all the same, doesn’t mean we’re all under one nation, but we have to have a functioning unity. We have to be self sufficient, which means we’re not dependent upon foreign powers for our resources or technology. And we have to be extremely discreet.
Howard: I understood the first two. What about the third one—discretion? How can we achieve that? It’s a society of millions and billions of people.
Marshall: We know that free nations do not co-exist well with nations that are not free. We’re seeing the impact of that everywhere. In the universe our freedom is rare. Nations that promote individual freedom is the exception, not the rule. So, to protect yourself against the intervention or the influence of those other nations, free nations have to be very discreet.
Which means they’re not broadcasting all of their conflicts, their obsessions and their illnesses out into the universe around them, as we’re doing now. They’re very concerned about maintaining their internal insulation, which means they’re not traveling all over the universe.
Howard: That, to me, sounds like some kind of authoritarian state that you’re advocating there. That we clamped down on our freedoms, on our freedoms to express ourselves, to entertain ourselves, to be ourselves.
Marshall: No, I’m just saying—you know I think you’re not understanding me here. What I’m saying is that in order to be a free society in the universe where freedom is rare, you have to keep outside forces out.
Marshall: So you can have that freedom. Otherwise, your people are going to be interfered with. There’s going to be interventions, such as we’re experiencing.
Howard: When you talk about outside forces, let’s be very clear and the need to keep those out of a free society, who are we talking about?
Marshall: Well, right now, we’re talking about all those invasive forces that are in the world today, who are interfering in human affairs for their own purposes, and who are deceiving people into believing that they’re bringing free energy, and peace and harmony and fulfillment to the world.
Howard: And who are those people? I not aware of anybody saying how there’s free energy out there. Are you aware of those people?
Marshall: Well, there are a lot of people talking about that. There are books being written about that. There’s a very pro-intervention movement going on in the world and I’m one of the few individuals in the world today who’s speaking out against that.
Howard: So, you’re talking about this whole “zero point idea” and all the rest of it, the idea that there is endless free energy out there if only we get out there and find it. You’re saying that this is an illusion, it’s a deception. Not an illusion.
Marshall: It’s a deception. It is absolutely a deception. You know there’s no free lunch in the universe. I mean everyone is struggling for resources out there. Advanced societies need resources that even they can’t produce. So, what does this mean in terms—freedom is self- sufficiency. When you lose that, you’ve lost the source of your freedom.
You’ve lost any control over your world. You’ve lost control over your personal life to a very great extent and this a real—it’s kind of unfortunate, but it is a reality of life in the universe. And it’s a reality that people don’t see and they don’t want; they don’t understand. They want the world to be everything that the world isn’t, and that’s not the truth.
Howard: So all these moves towards internationalism that we see on this planet, all these moves towards being one, not a good idea, we need to focus on individual communities and be self-sufficient, like you said.
Marshall: The world has to have a functioning unity because if that’s not the case ….
Howard: You use that phrase, “a functioning unity,” let’s explain that clearly.
Marshall: Which means we can make decisions that benefit everyone involved, that aren’t simply based upon national interests, because we’re dealing with a world and its resources that are diminishing. So we have a choice. There’s two paths to go here. Either we move to greater and greater cooperation and greater and greater world security, as opposed to just national security.
Or we move into a more competitive, more intensively competitive situation, where nations are going to be struggling and even fighting over who has access to the remaining resources. And if you know what’s going on in the world today, the build-up for that second option is happening right now. Nations are arming for conflict over who has access to various parts of the world, such as the South China Sea.
Howard: Well, that’s a fact. I mean a lot of people talking about that stuff right now.
Marshall: This is a real thing, so this is a great danger. We’re at a turning point where we’re either going to do what we’ve always done, which is highly competitive, highly destructive, or we’re going to take a different tack. Because if we don’t take that different tack, we’re not going to have a livable world and we’re going to create a reality—a violent, conflicted reality—far greater than any of the World Wars we’ve ever known.
War happening all over the world simultaneously, a war of desperation, a genocidal war. This is very bad. OK, this is part of the warning. I mean, we as humanity are standing at the brink of choosing. We’re going to choose this way or we’re going to choose to go that way and that is why in part The Revelation is here, because the need, the situation, is much more grave than people realize.
Howard: You said that on the forums, people attack you, people from established religions attack you and want to get behind their own prophets. Are you saying that you’re the prophet and forget what you had before, follow me?
Marshall: I’m only saying I’m bringing a new Revelation into the world. It’s here to enhance all the world’s religions. It’s here to unite the world’s religions by recognizing their common Source and their common emphasis. I’m not here to replace anything. I’m here to bring something new and revolutionary into the world. And that is my task.
Howard: Do you believe that you are a Christ figure?
Marshall: No. I’m a Messenger. I only claim to be a Messenger—nothing more, nothing less.
Howard: And what are you saying to people? And I’m sure you’ve had them on forums and various other places, public meetings perhaps, who say, “this is just crazy.” What is the most convincing argument you could put to somebody and even… Look, I get emails from people who will be very, very interested and captivated by what you’ve said and people who say. “This guy’s a crazy.”
Marshall: I’d say, go to The New Message. It’s there, available for you to read, to listen to. See if that resonates with you. You can judge me, but you know people often perseverate over the Messenger, because they can’t deal with the Message. And all I’m doing is pointing the way to The New Message. I mean I’m not going be on this Earth forever. I’m leaving something for everyone to use or not use.
Howard: And is this something that you’re creating, The New Message? Is this a religion? Are you starting a religion? I’m sorry I have to ask you these hard questions, but it’s valuable to ask them.
Marshall: OK, that’s a good question. It’s a fair question. It’s going there. For some people, this will be the faith they follow; this will be their religious pathway. For others hopefully, it will inform and bring a different Greater Reality into the world, so that a Christian can become a Christian with a Greater Community awareness, who is aware of the Power and Presence of Knowledge. A Muslim who is aware of the Greater Community, who’s also aware of the Power and Presence of Knowledge within themselves—people of all faith traditions, people of any faith tradition, people of no faith tradition.
Howard: You’re asking people to get behind this because this is the truth. I can hear, even now, if we pause for a second, I can almost hear people from Arizona to Tehran to London screaming “blasphemy” at you.
Marshall: Yes, and they are. And they will. But that’s the price of bringing something like this into the world. It’s a price that is going to make my life very endangered. It’s a price that I have to sacrifice my personal freedom for. This is not about me, you know, amplifying myself. I’m going to be a target and you know this is why it took so long, in part, for me to receive this Revelation, because it brings such great hazard to my life, such great demands, such great expectations.
You know, we have people from all over the world now responding to the New Message. We have a Free School that’s very interesting. People can join and participate at whatever level they want and in the Free School we study parts of The New Message. We spend two months studying one part of The New Message. Right now, we’re studying “The New World,” preparing for the new world.
We just began that session, and we have people from currently 72 countries participating in the Free School and they can participate without cost, without obligation; they can participate a lot or a little, to whatever extent they want. It’s all available at newmessage.org and I’m just trying to make this available to as many people as possible. And some of these people will say: “I’ve been looking for this all my life.” And not because of what I say, Howard. It’s because they went to The New Message and it really resonated with them.
Howard: Well look, there are gonna be lots of people, I can imagine a lot of people, for whom the things that you’ve said will resonate with them tremendously. But some of those people will have doubts in their mind and they will say, “this guy is setting himself up as a cult leader whether he knows it or not and he’s trying to attract cultists and there are enough organizations like that around at the moment, some of them highly questionable. He’s trying to attract cultists, um, to follow him, to follow this message and to bend traditional religion. Here is just another cult. It’s the makings of another Waco with Jim Jones. It’s all of that stuff.”
Marshall: Well, you know, cults are all about their leaders, and usually cults have very little teaching of any substance. It’s all about the charisma or the promises of the leader. And what I’m bringing into the world is something that’s going to outlive me and I’m concerned about that. It’s not—you know, I don’t need the adulation and I don’t want the adulation.
Howard: Are you getting adulation?
Marshall: Oh, I get a little bit, but I get a lot more criticism than adulation. Certainly. And you know for me, it’s leaving this legacy of The New Message for people that’s my main concern, because I’m going to be gone. You know, I’m not going to be here after a time. And what’s left here for people and the power they can have to bring people to their strength, their purpose, their courage is what is important for me.
Because if many people can do that—and it doesn’t have to be everyone—then the opportunity for humanity, the promise for humanity grows, because at any moment, there’s a balance between love and fear in this world, between strength and weakness, between internal courage and cultural manipulation and it’s constantly changing.
It’s probably changing hour to hour, though we can’t really measure that with any accuracy. So my focus and my purpose is to bring this great Message, which has taken me 30 years to receive, to people to utilize as much as they choose and as much as they think they need to.
Howard: Now Marshall, are you getting rich off this? Are you making money off this?
Marshall: Oh, I make a small salary. And I drive an old car.
Howard: And your organization, it has great bank balances?
Marshall: We’re just—we’ve been underfunded for a long time, because everything goes back into producing books, websites, forums, Free Schools, free broadcasts. Everything’s going back into trying to get this Message out because time is of the essence.
Howard: The one thing that will set you and your organization apart from a cult or organization that is perhaps, you know, not that well motivated, is your attitude to people who don’t buy into it. What do you think of people who don’t, and won’t, buy into any of this?
Marshall: It’s OK. It’s to be expected. It’s OK. I mean the world has been so polluted by false prophets. It has been so polluted by the excesses and the corruption of religious organizations. I understand why people are jaded. I understand why people are not just skeptical, why they’re infuriated about it. And so for me to come and present a New Message from God is going to infuriate them. And I understand that.
Howard: Because you’re getting this information, you say from God, do you feel special?
Marshall: I feel that I am The Messenger for it, but beyond that, I don’t feel special.
Howard: And you’ve been described as a prophet. Do you think you are?
Marshall: I’m bringing prophecy to the world. So, I don’t call myself a prophet, but if someone calls me a prophet, I’m bringing prophecy to the world, but so are other people. But what I’m bringing to the world is the reality of The Greater Community, the reality of the Power of Knowledge within us, which has only been fully known to saints and sages through the history of our world. I’m bringing to the average person something that has not been given to the average person.
Howard: There are people who are going to love what you’ve said and people who will be abhorred by what you’ve said. You’re going to have to put up with a certain amount of adulation that you described and an awful lot of approbation, an awful lot of criticism, an awful lot of personal attacks. You’ve been doing this for 30 years. Are you ready for what is to come?
Marshall: Well, [chuckles] we’ll see. I mean I’m not putting myself out in the public arena to the extent that I’m being personally attacked, but I’m certainly being attacked on the Internet and we get communications from people from the United States and other countries that are very upset about what’s being presented here and other people who just think it’s just a wonderful thing.
And so, I have to be honest. I have to know that I’m communicating something pure, something uncorrupted by human history, human commentary, human adaption and adoption. I’m bringing something very clean and very pure into the world and it’s going to be sullied here.
Howard: Are you trying to brainwash people?
Marshall: I’m giving people power; I’m not brainwashing them. I’m giving them—here are the resources. Here’s The Revelation. Use Knowledge within yourself to see what this means. Take the Steps to Knowledge that have been provided if you so choose and see how that connects you to your inner powers and certainty. I’m offering people the gift and the opportunity.
Howard: In other words, if you try it, you don’t like it you can return it for a full refund. You know, you won’t feel any animosity towards anybody who says, “I think this is trash.”
Marshall: I mean it’s disappointing when good people, you know, don’t even have the courage to go to The New Message. They’re just going to dispense with this, because it flies in the face of their idea of their belief. I mean, I can ask people of good conscience to at least go and explore The New Message and that’s what I do ask of people and I don’t condemn anyone if they shouldn’t do that, because you know, we are still a relatively free world. I say relatively. We’re a relatively free world. People can dismiss or deny things they don’t want or don’t believe in, even if they do that for, you know, pretty questionable reasons. I mean and some people have good reasons; some people don’t want anything to do with religion. They’ve had it with religion.
Howard: I can well understand people saying that religion is either a) their bedrock and foundation, or on the other side of the coin, they’ll say religion is the reason for wars and all sorts of hardship in this world. You know, religion will always divide people. That’s the only thing we can be certain of.
Marshall: Well that’s right and that’s an unfortunate reality. I mean there are many people out there who I think fall somewhere in between those two polar extremes that you mentioned that regard themselves as spiritual and not religious. Perhaps they came out of a faith tradition they can no longer abide with. Perhaps they’ve just stayed out of religion as a major focus, but they still consider themselves to be spiritual, ethical. They still sense strongly in some way that there’s a Greater Power, dimension, to their life. And you know that’s an important segment of our population. They’re somewhere in between those two extremes.
Howard: And finally, you say that there are powers beyond this planet who are trying to rape this planet for their own ends and there are other forces trying to stop that. You get a lot of opposition, and I can quite understand why you do on this planet. Are you surprised that any of the forces that are perhaps not working in our best interests outside this planet haven’t tried to take you out or silence you?
Marshall: Well, if they try to take me out, they just validate what I’m teaching and what I’m presenting and they could harm or destroy me in the future. It’s part of the risk that I have to take in presenting this Teaching about The Greater Community and about life in the universe. It’s very risky; what I’m doing is very risky. And you know it’s been hard; it’s not the life I would have personally chosen. This is not—I’ve been called to do something that I would not have personally chosen for myself, because when people personally chose things, they want safety and security and comfort and for the most part, you know, they don’t want to be troubled by huge challenges and overwhelming opposition.
Howard: We have a saying in the UK: “anything for a quiet life.”
Marshall: [Chuckles]—anything for a quiet life; there you go; that’s right!
Howard: Alright, so Marshall I know you’ll appreciate and from what you sincerely say; you know that what you’ve said here is very controversial and there will be opposition to it and there will be people who will say, “This guy’s got the kernel of a great idea”. That is for them to decide. You’ve presented your points here. And I thank you for it. If people wanted to know more about you, what do they do?
Marshall: They can visit newmessage.org on the Internet. It has the Voice of Revelations there for people to listen to. It has Steps to Knowledge; the entire book is there to read and download and use. It has tremendous amounts of things to read and resources for people. The Free School is there. It’s great.
I mean it’s our way of trying to reach the world on a pretty limited budget in a short amount of time, because time now is of the essence and I do welcome people to explore The Revelation, to see what it has to say to them, to see what it means for them and how they might be able to benefit from it and benefit others with it.
Howard: Marshall, thank you for your time.
Marshall: Good, thank you, very much.
Howard: Well, Marshall Vian Summers, there with a controversial—wow was it controversial—start to this New Year of 2013. Let me know your thoughts all about that. I think I can anticipate some of them.
And I hope you understand that if you come at it from the other side of the coin, that I had to challenge what that man was saying, because the stuff that he was saying you have to explore, otherwise what is the point of doing a show like this? Marshall Vian Summers—I’ll put a link on my website, www.theunexplained.tv to his website and you make your own decisions about that. And in the fullness of time we’ll see what transpires to do with this.
Interview date: January 10, 2013
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